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Jagged Alliance: Crossfire


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#41 scope112

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 05:49 PM

Can someone who actually has the time and inclination to watch two thirty-minute videos give a reasonably objective breakdown of this? Are there any gameplay improvements (as opposed to just content additions)? It seems like the guy just babbles and occasionally makes content references instead of actually talking about the game. Just watching the first five minutes, it looks like the "burst-fire sniping" problem of the AI might have been resolved, but that's not much of a sample size.


There is nothing new or improved gameplay wise.
It's basically a set of new maps, with a new story and NPC's, some new MERCS and new items.
Furthermore, there are less maps than JA: BIA, however the maps are much bigger. Moreover, the maps have some more variety than in Vanilla.
Jagged Alliance: Crossfire is like the prior released DLC's, but then a much bigger version of it.

#42 theWul

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:21 PM

Glitch & co and their Combalt Evolved made the game (ok, patch 1.13 got it's share) at least some fun to play.
But if they aren't going to improve gameplay (i.e. separate Fire Modes from Stances, separate Time-to-Ready from Time to Shoot, per Weapon Attachements, Camoflage, restack consumables - actually these are "fixes" rather than "improvements") then ... hm ...
... guess were down to last one to leave turn off the light...
Looking forward for the new UFO...

#43 kingy10kingy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 01:07 AM

To all devs , you really need to work on the interface I am very disspointed that crossfire is pretty much exactly the same game as back in action with just a new map.

Critical things to fix to make this game truely brilliant:

1. Fix the camera , it is way to restrictive and causes a huge ammount of frustration and problems. (absolutely critical in a game like this)

2. Introduce group formations (if you meet an enemy your own guys will shoot eachother because there all so bunched up by default).

3. Have mercs auto shoot mode when enabled to "unlikely to hit" because more often than not it actually does hit the target (enemy soldiers do this , mercs should to)

#44 Landwalker

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:23 AM

There is nothing new or improved gameplay wise.
It's basically a set of new maps, with a new story and NPC's, some new MERCS and new items.
Furthermore, there are less maps than JA: BIA, however the maps are much bigger. Moreover, the maps have some more variety than in Vanilla.
Jagged Alliance: Crossfire is like the prior released DLC's, but then a much bigger version of it.

I see.

I'd heard references to such, but I saw the game on Steam yesterday and one of the bullet-points is "Enjoy the Jagged Alliance series as never before with vastly improved graphics, enhanced AI behavior, a polished interface and numerous performance and gameplay updates."

So I thought / hoped that maybe the references I had heard had not been the whole story about the "expansion" and that it might have, you know... enhanced AI behavior, a polished interface, and numerous gameplay updates...

=\

#45 kingy10kingy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:13 PM

I think steam are just trying to make sales, there are no gameplay or interface improvements. Very strange i know , its like having a car with a broken steering wheel and changing the paint paint job instead.

#46 scope112

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:50 PM

I see.

I'd heard references to such, but I saw the game on Steam yesterday and one of the bullet-points is "Enjoy the Jagged Alliance series as never before with vastly improved graphics, enhanced AI behavior, a polished interface and numerous performance and gameplay updates."

So I thought / hoped that maybe the references I had heard had not been the whole story about the "expansion" and that it might have, you know... enhanced AI behavior, a polished interface, and numerous gameplay updates...

=\


The Steam advertisement is referring to features from JA: BIA 1.13 patch, which brought improvements compared to the release version.
However, JA: Crossfire contains NO additional improvements compared to the 1.13 version.

#47 Landwalker

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:26 PM

The Steam advertisement is referring to features from JA: BIA 1.13 patch, which brought improvements compared to the release version.
However, JA: Crossfire contains NO additional improvements compared to the 1.13 version.

Huh. That's a shame.

Guess that ruins all incentive I would have to pick up Crossfire.

#48 mcdonis

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

Thats too bad, a new map sounds good but I would like to see at least some improvement from patch 1.13 to the new expansion to justify the cost.


I will just wait till the christmas steam sale, I expect sales will be bad and they will lower the cost to promote sales. If not then I know I can wait, I over played JABIA anyway

#49 swatti

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:57 PM

If they fixed the core game OR added an option for different gameplay(why not, some may like the current... Just cant imagine why) these DLCs would sell nice.

Personaly im a bit full of the "random middle-eastern country, terrorists, nukes" -thing but i do suppose every game needs one. That said, every game does need a zombie-DLC too ^^
JA2 had scifi-mode, why not adda "zombie-mode" to BIA? AI kinda fits the picture allready :D

#50 Mindless

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 02:01 PM

There was a zombie shadow... so yeah, that would work!

The only edition to gameplay that would get me to spend more money on Back in Action (and bitComposer in general)is if the features list include the following; Turn-based Strategy option now available.

Up until that happens they can keep their inferior rip-offs and I will keep my money...

#51 swatti

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:30 PM

Turn-based was implemented to cope with the hardware requirments at the time, in JA2 that is. JA2 didnt exactly have the best engine in terms of optimisation. No-one had the rig to run that in real-time exept NASA and CIA and the other was tryin to find aliens and the other was trying to fight aliens...
Imagine "silent storm" in real-time. The amount of bullets flying and stuff getting broken would have been MASSIVE and both JA2 and ST were not designed to be real-time UI-wise. Both would have needed massive amounts of work in UI to work as real-time.

All that said. I'd say turn-based games have seen their days. Im not saying it cant be done, it indeed can be, but there are A LOT of issues, realism just being one of them.

The "Plan & Go" is rather brilliant in its concept, sadly the engine and AI doesnt support it much. Real gun-fights are usually VERY FAST, not 20min 'flying over tables while hosing a pair of SMGs at some bad guys' heroics like in the movies. Planning all that should be the thing to do in this game, right now it feels most time taken is the aiming.
The P&G system is simply "not needed" much. Pause and giving a single order will do so "why bother" - Honestly it should be mandetory to use the P&G-system in simple fight.

Grr... Feels like im starting to repeat myself in every topic and post. But hey, remember, Zombies! ^^

#52 cane

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

Sorry but won't be getting this one. I got the game at a discount recently and while a lot has been improved in the latest patch it's still not even close to what I would come to expect.

Random gun stats and bullets, lack of tactical options, awful voices, ridiculous and unrealistic level up system, no vehicles, tedious militia management and a god awful camera are just some of the things that kinda ruined this game for me. I understand the switch from turn based but I was expecting something more like what we saw in Brigade E5 or 7.62 and not the super shallow plan and go we currently are forced to use

#53 Mindless

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 06:05 AM

@swatti; JA2 was turn-based because that is what the JA fans as well as Sir-Tech wanted it to be, just like Fallout Tactics 2 years later and Silent Storm 2 years after that. It had nothing to do with limitations due to technology, just as you still get TBS games and they still appeal to fans of the sub-genre. Jagged Alliance is known as one of the greatest turn-based franchises to date (along with X-COM, tactics has some mixed opinions) and not even making the TBS system available as a option is a slap in the face of both creators and fans.

"turn-based games have seen their days" If this is true than kindly explain the near release of Firaxis' XCOM TBS?

I did actually buy Back in Action (went on special very quickly over here)and has put enough time in to it to know the realtime with pause system works just fine (regardless of what name you decide to call it and claiming it to be "revolutionary"). It worked just fine for the After* games as well! Altar Games never did claim that Aftermath, Aftershock or Afterlight was a X-COM game though...

All I am saying is that as long as Back in Action wants to pretend to belong in the Jagged Alliance series (not to mention being a "Remake"!) that it should at least respect the source material and fans and at least allow us to play it in TBS if we so choose. The game, for this old JA fan at least, just simply does not work as a realtime game... and judging by other posts and both professional and user reviews/ratings... I'm not alone.

Otherwise the games shows great potential, much more so then most other attempts! I still think that back then when the IP was still in Strategy First's hands that they should have just asked Nival to develop JA3!

#54 vstr

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:32 AM

Pressrelease:

bitComposer Games and Kalypso announce the first add-on to the successful strategy game Jagged Alliance: Back in Action. The standalone add-on, Jagged Alliance: Crossfire will be available in German-speaking countries in the Summer of 2012, and can be purchased in stores or via Steam. Jagged Alliance: Crossfire, such as Back in Action, is developed by the Coreplay Studio in Munich.

* Ten new M.E.R.C. mercenaries, bringing the roster up to 50 mercs


Wow, just wow!
You fu**ers are really shameless!
What's the point of 10 new mercs when game mechanics don't take any stats/skills into account (beyond simple checks to use items)?
I tried to roleplay snipers, I tried stealth, even tried suppression/close-combat. Guess what? None of it works against your brilliant Zerg slingshot-sniper AI. Only thing that works is to equip your team with high RPM guns, hide around the corner, pop one merc out to trigger the Zerg horde and then sit back and watch as they all run one by one into your RPM mincer - like a freaking Bugs Bunny cartoon.

I have to wonder, does Germany offer the same tax benefits to video game producers that it used to offer film makers? Are you making money no matter what?
Are you, in fact, video game version of Uwe Boll?
I'll be disheartened if that turns out to be true. At this point my only hope is that you'll go bust and in few years some other crew with more professional integrity and, dare I hope, love for the franchise will pick up the pieces and do something worthwhile with it.

Also, promos are meant to showcase the best features ACTUALLY INCLUDED in the product. What chutzpah!

/rant

#55 swatti

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 05:10 PM

Considoring X-com has HUGE fanbase, far greater then Jagged Alliance, they CAN make it TBS and still make loads of money out of it, i'd say its budjet is twice what JA:BIA has had so far and X-com aint even done yet.
But, like i said, TBS can be done and by the looks of it, X-com shows it can be done well.

All things considored, and modern gaming with the need to make money, i cant say it was wrong to turn JA into real-time. But, i do understand there SHOULD BE an option for turn based, at some point atleast. I'd leave that off to be honest and since its made around real-time, they should fix that first, then add the TBS-option... If possible and i cant imagine how much coding that could take.

I have nothing against TBS, i liked Silent Storms, the new UFO-games and loved JA2. While X-com can rely on its fanbase to bring it customers, JA:BIA tried to get new ones too. I understand their idea and like real-time over TBS but sadly the devs left it half way and are now pumping out content to milk the last penny out of the title... Unless they actually do fix it and this game will go down in history as having a rough start but then became an importan part of that very history. Cmon guys, you cant be seriously "happy the way things are" can you?

#56 Teddygun

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:49 AM

I will wait and get it in the sales for 0.75 penny's.

#57 Mindless

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 06:55 AM

@swatti, I believe BiA also had a rather small dev team, Firaxis does have the cash, the people and of course... Sid:)

I don't really think that X-COM has that much bigger a fanbase? X-COM was multi-platform so I suppose more people got to play it, but JA 1 and 2 also had a lot fans (many of which are still hanging out at the Bears Pit:))

The 2 Silent Storm games where awesome, I have stopped hoping for a third installment though. I really do believe that if bitComposer showed some respect to the source material that their sales and ratings would have been a lot better. I understand what you are saying though, as much as BiA isn't actually a Jagged Alliance game... if you just look at it as a realtime tactical strategy, then it needs some serious work.

bC should focus on fixing what they have, as you say, before trying to turn it in to a JA game. All the current flaws of BiA does need to be resolved before bC tries to make more money from slapping the words "Jagged" and "Alliance" on everything that goes by... but for me personally; they will not get another cent from me until TBS is restored to the title. I bought BiA and ALL current available DLC, to show my support... but Crossfire and everything that follows has NO appeal to me until they remember what Jagged Alliance is suppose to be!

#58 mcdonis

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:09 PM

I love TBS based games but I am not up in arms about the "plan and go" system. I find it works fine for me and I find it enjoyable, actually as much as I liked JA2 I have actually played JABIA more by a factor of 10. (Granted I know I am one of the few) My only real complaint with this series is the way they are handling DLC. A nice way of putting it is that their DLC is not quite what you would expect, another way of putting it is its a darn rippoff. The single gun and outfit DLC ranks up there with the most laughable content ever put out for sale on a game.

#59 Mindless

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:12 PM

"The single gun and outfit DLC ranks up there with the most laughable content ever put out for sale on a game." Kind of makes you wonder what will be next, horse armour maybe? :)

#60 Glitch

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 01:11 PM

"The single gun and outfit DLC ranks up there with the most laughable content ever put out for sale on a game." Kind of makes you wonder what will be next, horse armour maybe? :)


Horse armor wasn't gone after 2-3 hits :D




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