47 replies to this topic

[skeeball]

Seems a little excessive? They can stand at a huge range and hit targets with deadly precision while in burst mode. Magic with AR skill and an AKM will still get 'Unlikely to hit' from half the distance or much less.

[Sleught]

In the end yes, we have almost super automatic fire soldiers.

[skeeball]

In the end yes, we have almost super automatic fire soldiers.

Plus melee can cover 10 feet faster than someone can squeeze a trigger on a shotgun.

No wonder these guys took over. This is some nanobot genetically mutated military squad.

[mr31337]

Plus melee can cover 10 feet faster than someone can squeeze a trigger on a shotgun.

No wonder these guys took over. This is some nanobot genetically mutated military squad.

How fast can humans sprint 10 feet to stab somebody if their life depended on it? Lets do the math.

Humans can sprint at 44km/h which is 40feet per second.

So in your example they would take 0.25 second to cover 10 feet.

But you dont have to be chest to chest to stab; arm length plus weapon length we can reasonably call 3'4".

SO perhaps it should be how fast can you cover 6'8" if your life depended on it?

It works out at about ~0.17 seconds. Is that faster than you can pull the trigger?

The average (median) human reaction time is 215 milliseconds, which is 0.215 seconds.

So in theory most average humans would get stabbed if they were being attacked by a man sprinting at max human speed with a knife at arms length from 10 feet.

Sure there are a lot of other variables we could consider, but the point is either way it gets very close for humans.

[Mr. Gerbil]

44km/h is World Record Speed (fastest Man). 37Km/h is what those Athletics must reach running.
Average Humans can be happy if reach 20km/h.

Let us take those 10m. The only reason why those Guys spotts each other at 10m, is because one is coming out from a Corner.
Dont even have to try to stab the Shooter, because the Melee must start moving the whole mass, the first few Steps are the slowest.

[mr31337]

Sorry dont want to be a Smartass(or however it's called), but 44km/h is World Record Speed (fastest Man). 37Km/h is what those Athletics must reach running.
We "normal" Humans can be happy if reach 20km/h.

That's why I said "max human speed" and "if your life depended on it". Don't forget that Usain Bolt comes from a small island nation, not unlike Arulco.
The highest human footspeed ever recorded is 48 km/h (29.8 mph), seen during a 100 meter sprint by Asafa Powell.

There are many other variables, if you want to get into them lets consider 'time to aim'. Reaction speed is just to press a button, not time to level, aim and shoot which will take longer, assuming the weapon is ready to fire. The point is that the example given isn't a really clear cut case of shooting being being hugely faster than stabbing at distance of 10 feet. However you look at it this is very close, we're considering milliseconds...

[BGratz77]

That's why I said "max human speed" and "if your life depended on it". Don't forget that Usain Bolt comes from a small island nation, not unlike Arulco.
The highest human footspeed ever recorded is 48 km/h (29.8 mph), seen during a 100 meter sprint by Asafa Powell.

There are many other variables, if you want to get into them lets consider 'time to aim'. Reaction speed is just to press a button, not time to level, aim and shoot which will take longer, assuming the weapon is ready to fire. The point is that the example given isn't a really clear cut case of shooting being being hugely faster than stabbing at distance of 10 feet. However you look at it this is very close, we're considering milliseconds...

why dont hold it short

There is a reason why Bayonet´s are existing.

[mr31337]

There is a reason why Bayonet´s are existing.

This.

[Sleught]

Even tought there s a lot of wrong thing.
A buttock doing the same damage of a combat knife to an armored fighter.
And you can run 5m before someone can squeeze a trigger with a pistol ridiculous. It will take you at least 2 sec to reach the gunner and 0.2 to the slowest 1 second to squeeze trigger.
The fact that your stancedetermine the speed of firing for me is the most abominous feature of all. Its realy in the most patetc lvl.

[skeeball]

Sure there are a lot of other variables we could consider, but the point is either way it gets very close for humans.

Right, like a shotgun barrel is still pointed at your gullet without needing someone to aim down the sights to fire it. Every moment they spend coming towards you is actually less of a need for accuracy at point blank range. The range of stabbing is canceled out by the fact that you are going to have to be smack dab in the line of fire to even make an attempt to stab. And stab over the protruding shotgun barrel. Keep in mind, I said shotgun.

Hell the closer he is the better.

On top of that 10 feet was probably short based on the scale of the game, giving that a prone merc is about 6ft of space. I've definitely seen this beyond 10 feet.

And yeah don't get me started on corners.

Anyways. Their autofire range is retarded.

[mr31337]

Right, like a shotgun barrel is still pointed at your gullet without needing someone to aim down the sights to fire it. Every moment they spend coming towards you is actually less of a need for accuracy at point blank range. The range of stabbing is canceled out by the fact that you are going to have to be smack dab in the line of fire to even make an attempt to stab. And stab over the protruding shotgun barrel. Keep in mind, I said shotgun.

Hell the closer he is the better.

I don't see the significance of a shotgun barrel that you are suggesting. I appreciate that buckshot will spread, although this depends on your barrel length, load and choke. Aiming still takes some time even from the hip, but if it is 'pointed at your gullet' there is no need to aim,therefore a shotgun is not an advantage.

The '10feet example' never suggested that a 'shotgun barrel was pointed at your gullet'. We could equally assume the attacker was coming from some other direction and the shotgun was not pointed at the attackers gullet. Of course we can change any of the variables as I said in an earlier post, but none of these were mentioned in the example on which I based the "average reaction time v (distance travelled/max speed)".

I can't agree with the "closer he is the better", except where we assume an equal reaction time for the melee attacker, and that was never implied by the '10feet attack example'.

To generalize we can say that weapons technology gives us increased lethality at range. Besides, there is a reasonable argument that if we exclude all melee weapons from having any chance of being useful does it make the game better?

The constant here is average human reaction time: 215 milliseconds.

[skeeball]

Alright man, you want to go run straight at someone who has a shotgun and try to stab him with a knife go right ahead.

If you think you can pull it off then you are part of "some nanobot genetically mutated military squad."

The '10feet example' never suggested that a 'shotgun barrel was pointed at your gullet'. We could equally assume the attacker was coming from some other direction and the shotgun was not pointed at the attackers gullet. Of course we can change any of the variables as I said in an earlier post, but none of these were mentioned in the example on which I based the "average reaction time v (distance travelled/max speed)".

Nothing was suggested because no scenario was given, you just kind of ran with it on your own.

[Sleught]

There s no way someone running at more than 2 meters can stab anything but himself before he takes at least one shot. Where the shot is aimed and if the target is armored is another tale...

[BGratz77]

Alright man, you want to go run straight at someone who has a shotgun and try to stab him with a knife go right ahead.

If you think you can pull it off then you are part of "some nanobot genetically mutated military squad."

many possible influences.

Is he Surprised by the attack
Can he see me
Can he identify me as enemy on first sight
...

From where i attack him.
Which is his Stance
Which is my Stance
how do he hold the shotgun
What type is the ground
How far is he away
Are there cover on the way
...

Is his weapon in Safe mode.
is a Bullet chambered
...

Does he wear Armor
Does i wear Armor
...

But Shurely , i have to attack him at his front and he is prepared to kill i will have no chance by more than 1m distance, and under 1m it could end in both direktions
Its how i said, theres a reason why Bayonets are still in use.

[mr31337]

Alright man, you want to go run straight at someone who has a shotgun and try to stab him with a knife go right ahead.

If you think you can pull it off then you are part of "some nanobot genetically mutated military squad."

The math shows it is within the realms of possibility.

I like the way you have ignored the maths and just give an opinion without any supporting facts, data or math.

[BlackAlpha]

The math shows it is within the realms of possibility.

I like the way you have ignored the maths and just give an opinion without any supporting facts, data or math.

Your math is flawed, though. You go ahead and try to cover 3 meters in 0.17 seconds from a stationary, or even a walking, upright position. I assure you, it is impossible! Maybe under perfect conditions, but in a combat situation when you are trying to knife someone, it's impossible. The reaction time alone would take longer than that!

On the other hand, try squeezing a trigger. Unless you got some sort of disease, you should be able to squeeze something with your fingers faster than it takes somebody to traverse three or even two meters. The stabbing motion, or probably even just accelerating, would take longer then that.

You do not need any math for this. Just use logic and common sense.

Do you honestly think you can move three meters within the time it takes for somebody to move his index finger?

[mr31337]

Maybe under perfect conditions, but in a combat situation when you are trying to knife someone, it's impossible. The reaction time alone would take longer than that!

That is pretty much what I said in an earlier post.

It has always been about math rather than the fallacy of incomplete evidence.

[BlackAlpha]

That is pretty much what I said in an earlier post.

It has always been about math rather than the fallacy of incomplete evidence.

You have no evidence...

Anyway, in perfect conditions you can pull the trigger much faster then someone can move his entire body. So your argument is still no good.

Just try it yourself. Move/run/crawl/leap three meters forward. Then try moving your index finger. Which can be accomplished faster? There's your answer.

[mr31337]

You have no evidence...

What are you talking about? I showed the math. You've only offered anecdotes.

Anyway, in perfect conditions you can pull the trigger much faster then someone can move his entire body. So your argument is still no good.

Show the math.

[BlackAlpha]

What are you talking about? I showed the math. You've only offered anecdotes.


Show the math.

Look, you gave us math based on false facts, like someone else pointed out already. Hardly anyone can run at 44 km/h within just 3 meters, it's close to impossible, if not impossible. Then there are even more problems with your "math". The thing is that math is pointless here if you're not going into extreme detail. And even if you are, then you will still be wondering afterwards why you went through all that trouble to point out the obvious.

I gave you a simple way to gather evidence yourself, evidence that is very obvious. I will repeat it again:

"Just try it yourself. Move/run/crawl/leap three meters forward. Then try moving your index finger. Which can be accomplished faster? There's your answer."

Just let your brain do the math, use your common sense.

If you still fail to see the obvious answer here... Well, at least I tried.