714 replies to this topic

[Skjold]

The VSS Vintorez is worth mentioning on it's own with very unique caracteristics. It is using the rare 38 caliber ammo, which is lacking in the armor piercing department. If shooting unarmored targets like punks or unhelmed heads it does a rather good job though with its very fast aiming and excellent stability from the ducking position or even when aiming from the shoulders. It's one of two sniper rifles that have a burst of two, which if both shots connect can double the damage making it an intersting alternative on the field

Very nice weapon comparison, however the VSS Vintorez fires the 9x39mm in-game (which was put in the mod by replacing the .38 special caliber) and it has alot more armour penetration.

[Phazorx]

The VSS Vintorez is worth mentioning on it's own with very unique caracteristics. It is using the rare 38 caliber ammo, which is lacking in the armor piercing department. If shooting unarmored targets like punks or unhelmed heads it does a rather good job though with its very fast aiming and excellent stability from the ducking position or even when aiming from the shoulders. It's one of two sniper rifles that have a burst of two, which if both shots connect can double the damage making it an intersting alternative on the field.

I beg to differ, ".38cal" is hardcoded and unfortunately it's not up to modders to affect this, but it is really 9x39 СП6 rounds, which are quite efficient at crushing kevlar and i really hope that after discussions in old R@S mod threads and Wilson's spreadsheet it is quite deadly to armored targets in game as long as you are in effective range.
It is definitely a unique weapon, requiring special tactics, but I doubt one can call it's munitions lacking in penetration department.

[Saten]

Just took a quick look at the mod and one thing really bothered me - how come SMG(as stated by our government )/AR 'Vepr' has clipsize of 10, fires 7.62x51 rounds and is classified as sniper rifle?

[Scav]

@Confus

i'm assuming you used an old characters.txt file for the extended perception experiment (works nicely btw. especially in drassen city with the road along the church) as it is filled to the brink with axe wielding maniacs ;-)

[B4RT]

Interesting, I haven't had a chance to get one into my hands yet in my second playthrough. Looking forward to it making it even more valuable. On to the next group of firearms though, the Handguns.



The prefered sidearm of any sniper, Handguns are ment to be used close quarter and are easy to handle. This clearly reflects in the very high numbers for the stances. Almost any gun can be shot from any stance with the same chance, any but two highest hitters: Desert Eagle and FN Barracuda.

The Desert Eagle has the highest damage per shot of any Handguns in the game in this version. Using the 357 caliber it's still decend even against armored targets like a steel helmet that was meant to save this poor guy from the incoming bullet in the head. The same caliber and slightly lower damage for the FN Barracuda as well as the comparable RPM of 360 vs 320 makes both guns pretty much twins. Both also share both drawbacks, their low range and actually bad chance to hit from the hip. Both should be explainable through the ammo and damage. Use them when your sniper needs to defend herself in buildings or if that nasty axe wielding freak has climbed up the roof where you were camping.

The AutoMag III looks like a gun for mercenaries, that want to compensate for something missing. Using the 7.62mm nato ammo makes it an excellent choice for a side arm, since the ammo is widely used by other assault rifles, machine guns and even most of the sniper rifles. It's aiming from the hip is way better than the two big ones and it shines with the best armor piercing for a handgun in this game. Overall never a bad choice, also due to it's mediocre range for a pistol.

The midrange of side arms is balanced around 33-30 damage using various calibers. The Five-seven stands out with it's formidable range of 23, if you need to hit sub machine gun wielders or the field or in the hospital or university corridors, especially since it's fairly nicely piercing through armor that some of the enemies might have gathered. The midrange side arms have a way better RPM and excellent stability from any stance, making them THE choice for close quarter combat with style.

Two pistols have burst mode: The Beretta 93R and Glock 18, which makes them very interesting. If you manage to connect all 5 9mm bullets of a Beretta 93R burst on an unarmored target, you kill anybody ... period. That makes for a pretty good stealthy killer, especially since you can put a silencer on it. The glock 17 if fired in burst also does more damage than a Desert Eagle or FN Barracuda can dream of, IF the target is not protected. Without the burst they are just another pistol, although with relatively high RPM.

[R@S]

Very nice B4RT, I think it will be very useful to use your work when we start to re-balance the weapons. Your stats are from my tweaking and the vanilla stats, not Wilson's latest, so I feel a little responsible for your overall approving posts

I hope you'll soon give us the rest of the weapon stats, it'll make my work so much easier.

@Phazorx
Is the 9x39mm still called .38cal? I thought I fixed that in the BDM 0.1 version.

@Saten
The reason they are classified as sniper rifles is to get the AI to rush anyone using them

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1030.aspx

[Dark]

The 9x39mm switch from .38 cal leads to a funny situation where the cheapo .38 revolver is firing a rather nice rifle round.

[R@S]

hehe, but you'll need to reload it sometime, and then you'd have to use the .357

[Confus]

@Scav that's strange enemies at drassen shouldn't have axe's, do you think enemy is playble now ? or is it just too darn aware now ?

@Dark ye hillbillies are untouched since they only appear at farm and are not part of dedrianas forces.

Without perception experiment i was working on somethign a bit more sofisticated, next version will probably see vest like theese
This is first Urban camo kevlar vest.
I can add 4-5 for the next release any suggestions ?
Btw thanks to the guy who pointed that kamo website, lot's of nice patterns

WIP:
Urban camo

[Havokreaper]

Great Mod so far couple things i noticed you had the P90 set as a rifle in the weapon.txt this causes that hoverhand capers that is really immersion breaking for me,
Tweaking it to a handgun improves the look of a person handling the P90. I also tweaked the anchor point for the change of attachments from a scope to a silencer
I also did this to the Vector aswell, this isnt an ideal fix but is a huge improvment over the stock handling stance imo.

Stock
// FN P90
Weapon (25, Rifle)
{
Weight 2540
Price 4400
ResourceId 3219
ShotEffectId 5596
// logic:
Damage 28
BestRange 54.0
StanceFactor 0
StanceFactor 1 0.9
StanceFactor 2 0.75
StanceFactor 3 0.8
Burst 5
ClipSize 50
GunType SubmachineGun
Ammunition 5_70mm
Quality 800
RPM 900
Icon 0 336 40 112 40
Picture 0 8 9 2
AnchorPoint 0.0 1.2 -0.2
Deliverable


tweaked
// FN P90
Weapon (25, HandGun)
{
Weight 2540
Price 4400
ResourceId 3219
ShotEffectId 5596
// logic:
Damage 28
BestRange 54.0
StanceFactor 0 1
StanceFactor 1 0.9
StanceFactor 2 0.75
StanceFactor 3 0.8
Burst 5
ClipSize 50
GunType SubmachineGun
Ammunition 5_70mm
Quality 800
RPM 900
Icon 0 336 40 112 40
Picture 0 8 9 2
AnchorPoint 0.0 0.4 -2.2
Deliverable

Attached Files

•  P90.jpg   55.15K   108 downloads

[Saten]

@Saten
The reason they are classified as sniper rifles is to get the AI to rush anyone using them

http://www.atlanticf...roduct1030.aspx

Eh... so that was the weapon you used. My bad for doing only look-through of weapons.txt and not checking it in-game.

[WilsonMG]

Thanks so so much for this mod. I was having a look at it's development throughout my first unmodded playthrough, looking forward in anticipation to start my second campaign with it. OVerall it looks very well balanced already but the best feature is in my opinion the changes you guys made to the militia.

@ Confus: Having body armor readily available throughout the game without having to go through the logistical nightmare of waiting till Bobby's online store delivers and dragging the heavy wests all over the island, it really makes the game way more enjoyable.

@ Ras and Wilson: The second biggest impact is filling the gaps within the weapon types with what Ras came up with as well as the overall more realistic approach to weapon stats, hats off to your excellent mod, gentlemen. Your work is very much appreciated and I admire your dedication and efforts.

In order to contribute to your work, I'd like to review the weapons with their current stats and how they compare to each other.



AI AS50 and M82A2 are, the only two rifles that use the highest armor piercing 50caliber ammo in the game combined with excessive 88 damage for the AI AS50 and 78 for the M82A2, which makes them first choice assasinating heavily armed soldiers from absurd distances. Both come with drawbacks though. With the RPM of 180 they are fairly slow but still acceptable for a sniper rifle, especially since they are designed to kill with one shot. More important to note is that they are actually very hard to control, even in prone position. If only every second bullet connects combined with very low RPM they don't perform that well overall.

We have a couple of good sniper rifles using the well piercing 7.62mm Nato ammo with ranges above 100. The first choice here would be the DSR-1 with it's excellent 75 damage over an extensive range of 115. It's drawback is the RPM of 60, which like the caliber 50 rifles means that it's made to kill with one shot. Compared to the caliber 50 snipers it is very stable though, shooting from prone has a much higher success rate than making the caliber 50 rifles hit it's designated target. Forget about shooting while ducking, this is better left for the other 7.62mm Nato sniper rifles. Overall it's an excellent choice though and perhaps the best sniper rifle available in your reportoir.
Both the L96A1 and M24SWS look pretty equal at first with its damage of 55 and 53 on a range just a bit over 100. The L96A1 is way more stable when shot from ducking position and even more important, it's way much faster to aim than the M24SWS.
The HK PSG1 seems to be more available so you most probably will wield it as some point of time during your mission in Arulco. It's pretty good in regards of range but compared to the DSR-1 it lacks in damage. Even though it's very easy to handle and will hit often, it's RPM is too low and you shouldn't hang on it too much when going into late game.

The two russian rifles SV-98 and it's little brother SVD Dragunov feel very different. THe SV-98 is has the fourth best damage with a very quick RPM of 650. This makes it a very good choice, especially since it can be fired fairly quickly ones if the first shot didn't kill. The control is very good in prone position but even if shot from the hip, it's still acceptable making for even faster shots. A very versatile weapon.
It's little brother, the SVD Dragunov suffers from comparibly low damage of 36 but still within formidable range of 80 and very good armor piercing. It's a good choice for the very first few days and the is most probably one of the first sniper rifles that are used by you on Arulco, which can still be used in the late game due to it's formidable armor piercing.

The M14EBR is a rather long range assault rifles with a burst of 2, making it an interesting choice when engaging armored targets on middle long distances (range 52). The good stability and formidable RPM of 750 makes this rifle a good piece of metal on the second look.

The VSS Vintorez is worth mentioning on it's own with very unique caracteristics. It is using the rare 38 caliber ammo, which is lacking in the armor piercing department. If shooting unarmored targets like punks or unhelmed heads it does a rather good job though with its very fast aiming and excellent stability from the ducking position or even when aiming from the shoulders. It's one of two sniper rifles that have a burst of two, which if both shots connect can double the damage making it an intersting alternative on the field.

Being the easiest to handle and rather fast, both the russian ammo shooting Kel-Tec SU-17, SKS and 5.56mm caliber Mini-14 (Which can be found very early in the game on the canibal farm) they behave more like assault rifles without burst, making it questionable to use those weapons at all when having a look at the range of 34 and 27.

As R@S stated above, those are not from my reworking of the stats.

To be completely honest, I was never 100% happy with my current range formula to begin with, and as it stands right now, I think that's the biggest complaint from anyone using my new realism stats. The fact is, I had something that "worked" and instead of fiddling with it to no end, I decided to move on with the rest of the work so we could get a release out and have people test it.

I've come up with a new method for calculating range that I will work on and get out to you all to test soon. Basically, it's the same formula as now, but it starts with a slightly higher in-game range on the lowest end, which increases ranges overall, more so on the little end, and less on the big end due to the scaling divisor. However, what I'm going to do next is actually divide the resulting ranges in half, since BestRange is actually the range at which most rounds will hit, and not in line with the definition of "effective range", which is where 50% will hit. Once I have something solid, I will go through and edit it all.

[B4RT]

Very nice B4RT, I think it will be very useful to use your work when we start to re-balance the weapons. Your stats are from my tweaking and the vanilla stats, not Wilson's latest, so I feel a little responsible for your overall approving posts

I hope you'll soon give us the rest of the weapon stats, it'll make my work so much easier.

Oh, I must have missed that, my bad. I ll update the stats soon and can share it with you. I just redid it for the handguns and have seen many changes in damage, range, RPM, ammo used and also burst. That makes my analysis rather outdated already. You guys are just too fast, which is very good for modders.

Regarding the balancing of weapons. In general I suggest every weapon in the game having it's own unique place and purpose. Every weapon should be useful and "best" in it's unique situation, even if it's just that it's the S&W Model 60LS that dropped from that random punk being the only gun you can use on the first map after you run out of your first clip. You get my idea?

We have the broad Weapon categories defined by the Guntype hardcoded into the game. I suggest having sub-categories within those, that make a couple of guns compareable but still having their own strenghts for itself, even if it's just a relatively big clip.

Let's take handguns for example: Divide the 12 handguns we have right now into 4 categories with 3 guns each. One would be the big, loud heavy hitters like Desert Eagle, FN Barracuda and AutoMag III. Make them heavy damage, one shot being even more damage than a sub-machine gun or most of the assault rifles. They should feel very clunky though, being forced to shoot from the hip to hit consistently, even snatch when fired from aim (stance 3). If it misses you should be pretty much screwed, so RPM is low.
THe Desert Eagle could have the biggest damage, the FN Barracuda the better range and the AutoMag III use the same ammo like many popular Rifles, making it a choice of convenience.
Category two would be for armor piercing, late game against heavily armored troopers. Another group for early game pistols, no armor piercing since its not needed yet but fairly okay for that purpose. An the last one the cheap mans arms, being readily available and the very early game guns that you loot from punks and scum.

EDIT: From the top of my head avoid weapons that feel the same, best-in-class-overall and ones that have no real purpose and feel like fillers. Instead, since weapon ID is valuable code real estate think for each one of them about
Gameplay stats Damage, Range, RPM, Ammo, Burst, Spread (for shotguns)
Convenience StanceFactor, Clipsize, Price, Availability, Weight, Clunkyness
Purpose Armored Targets, unarmored targets, short, mid, longrange
etc.

Ras & Wilson, what do you think?

[thrillskr]

Way to go R@S & Co. Now just to wait for model support so You can import the blue sun stuff (Want my proper looking HK416 and ACR).
Couple of suggestions if i may, i dont know why DSR has been reduced from .50. Yes, i know game says it's a DSR-1 which is indeed 7.62, but DSR-50 looks pretty much identical, uses .50 and is generally way more awesome. And since bolt action (read : slow) rifles only have place in this game as long as they're stupidly deadly, i believe the .50 would be more sensible. Plus the fact it's the only decent looking high caliber gun, M82 being insanely oversized. That may be just me, i can change it in my own game and stick to DSR. Just thought i'd point it out for consideration.
Also for people who keep whining about the AK74 - You do realize that AKM (the one in game anyway) is in fact an AK74 right ? the 'M' is just one of the AK family models, be it incorrectly labelled in game (AKM has full body stock, not skeleton one) but still...
Btw, Can you mess about with camo values of clothing ? Or is it as untouchable as the durability ?

[R@S]

@B4RT
I like your idea, and it was what I had planned to do. And if I ever get the time I'll actually try to do something like it, to give the player more options when playing the mod. And as I've said before, I like giving the players as many options as possible, it's more fun for everybody that way.

@thrillskr
The DSR-50 has a different muzzle, much bigger than the one in the game, it's why it got changed to the 7.62x51 caliber DSR-1.

Camo and armor values is easy to tweak in the available files.

EDIT:
@Havokreaper
I'm not sure what Wilson has planned for the P90, but thanks for your input and I'll see if we can't fix it in the mod.

[gouyou]

Played a bit with the mod tonight. Maybe two things for the future:

• the best sniper rifle is the HK21 now (didn't have a chance to try other LMGs),
  
• the icon of the FAMAS is a G1 model, not F1 (the 3d model is for a F1: no extended trigger guard).

[mr31337]

Tweaking it to a handgun improves the look of a person handling the P90. I also tweaked the anchor point for the change of attachments from a scope to a silencer
I also did this to the Vector aswell, this isnt an ideal fix but is a huge improvment over the stock handling stance imo.

I really like what you've done here with the P90.

Can you post the weapon.txt details in regard of the vector too please?

[Nhatorama]

look at this screenshot http://boards.jagged...s-stupid//post]

When making my post I actually thought about mentioning an increase of drug use in v1.06, compared to v.1.05.

The more I think about it the more I'm sure that the new patch blurred and muffled the enemy's sight and hearing. I take back my suggestion that the mod might have somehow screwed up the enemy.

[Nhatorama]

@Nhatorama
Would you mind sharing how you got hold of such good weapons so early in the game, I usually only have pistols and shotguns that early, and if I'm lucky I might have an SMG.

But I'll test the new stats this week and see if anything we have done in this mod has affected AI behavior, but I think it's highly unlikely.

Well to clear the air I haven't made any changes to the game files other than copying and pasting "character.txt" taken from the "Mod_Options" folder. I'm not using any cheats or exploits.

As to how am I getting such good gear right from the start, my guess is since I'm using the "character.txt" from the "hard_enemies" folder, the enemies are using assault rifles right from the beginning and that's what will drop if I'm lucky.

What I would suggest doing is somehow lower the drop rate of weapons at the start of the game and gradually raise it as the player gets closer to Deidranna. Unfortunately my gut tells me that this is probably not feasible at the moment.

[Confus]

@thrillskr camo is easy to edit, in fact i just finished working on camo'ed vests@
@Nhatorama wait 5 minutes i will give you one file to test

Try this
You shouldn;t need to restart your game this is part of my hard mode, increased enemy awareness experiment:)